Comments on: Chaplains Need a Ship Billet.

By: Justachaps

Justachaps — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:34:47 +0000

Dirty Ass Sailor (somehow the moniker seems to fit, oh, so well!)

You wrote:
“If you think that at the end of the day that your Chaplain won’t throw you under the bus when the XO is putting the screws to him trying to figure out what’s going on… You are mother fucking mistaken.”
“At the end of the day”, over a 16 year period as a Navy chaplain I have RARELY had a CO or XO pump me for information, and my answer to the very, very, few individuals who tried were answered with, “Sir, you and I both know I can’t, and won’t tell you. But I promise you, Skipper, I am taking care of your people the very best I can.” I have sometimes encouraged someone to rat themselves out, for their own sake but the choice is always left to them. Have there been any chaplains in the history of the Navy who have ratted out a shipmate? Yes, but there are self-serving cowards in every profession, but I can’t think of one in my experience. If I knew of one, I’d never speak to them again, and cross the street to avoid them. Geeez, when chaplains talk to other chaplains they are extremely careful about divulging confidences even when the story is way-cool-interesting (you guys and gals get yourselves into some interesting predicaments)!
Dirty Ass, go apologize to your local chaplain just for being your dirty ass old self.

By: Justachaps

Justachaps — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:24:12 +0000

Hiya, Squidvicious,
This is a very late entry, been away trying to convince people to believe in the easter bunny (oddly, they only want to hear about the one with chocolate ears, go figure!).
Glad to hear that your problem is not really with chaplains but with the US Constitution, which you, and I, swore to uphold and defend. Please get out, run for office, make sure that you push for an amendment to get rid of us fairy-tale folks in the military and I’ll say “fairwinds and following seas.” Frankly, you just sound angry, and God is always a convenient target for folks with unresolved issues. Probably with good cause, maybe some Bible-Thumper abused you as a child, I don’t know.
It’s also clear you don’t know many chaplains. Quite a few of us have zero problem with evolution, Darwin, astronomy, geology, etc. and have an almost 21st century view of ancient scripture, the value and power of myth, and we read books by Carl Sagan (I’ll bet I was loving Cosmos while you were in diapers). We just happen to believe that there is meaning and purpose to our lives and that historical religions can provide a few compass points in the search. That scary guy on the cross is one of my motivators to lay down my own life for my shipmates if and when the need arises. You just need a better education. Try any of Joseph Campbell’s work on mythology, etc. and DON’T paint all chaplains with that bullshit brush of yours. Just sayin’…

By: i~heart~Hawaii

i~heart~Hawaii — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:20:34 +0000

I believe chaplains should stay out at sea because messed up things can happen anytime.

I remember my deployment back in 2001. It was just a week after we had left San Diego and the USS Thach had an incident on their flight deck. I was standing some bullshit cross-rate watch so I was on the bridge of the USS Kinkaid and the Thach had come over the radio requesting a chaplain and a medical officer.

To me, I think chaplains are like counselors. You don’t necessarily need to believe in god or some greater power to talk to them. They are there to listen to service members and if they can’t help you out, I’m sure they will send you to the right professional(s) so you get the help you need.

By: Buffy

Buffy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:49:29 +0000

Why not pull off the Chaps? Heck, pulling off the PS’s has worked so well, we should pull everyone else off too!

By: Dirty Ass Sailor

Dirty Ass Sailor — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:20:38 +0000

If you think that at the end of the day that your Chaplain won’t throw you under the bus when the XO is putting the screws to him trying to figure out what’s going on… You are mother fucking mistaken. The bottom line is that when push comes to shove, their is no confidentiality in the military and all that are in it should plan accordingly.

By: Squid Vicious

Squid Vicious — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:25:10 +0000

Just a quick hit in response to JustaChaps comments: A note first of all to Squid Vicious - Why you want a chaplain and not a social worker: Chaplains have COMPLETE and TOTAL confidentiality, unlike any other human services caregiver in the military.

The chaplain corps complete and total confidentiality is peachy for those who would speak to a chaplain. The creation of a non-religious position with the same level of confidentiality would offer the same services minus the fairy tales.

Advice should come from people who base their decisions on empirical evidence — or god forbid – facts. When I see a chaplain, I see a person who likely believes that the earth is roughly 6,000 years old and that an all-powerful deity chose to impart his wisdom in a book to a population who largely could not even read. I see a person who likely believes salvation comes through belief in a sexist patriarchal god who, depending on which version of which book you read, has not only turned a blind eye – but demanded some of the more sadistic actions described in print. It’s scary that most chaplains find comfort in the image of a person nailed to a cross – scary.

By: Spendthrift

Spendthrift — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:44:49 +0000

I used to feel the same way about the ‘religious’ aspect but now I think it doesn’t matter so long as the need is met. If confidentiality is the only difference then it seems like that could be addressed so that non-chaplains could serve a mental health/counseling role.
What interests me is what’s missing from this puzzle, which is WHY the chaplains’ billets are being removed. Is it a manning issue? Are there too few people willing to be chaplains these days? if so, then trying to fill the need while deployed with what resources there are might be the best thing that can be done - a band-aid fix, sure, but better than nothing.
Is it a budget issue? Somebody says, ‘cut some billets’, and somebody else said, ‘um, hey, CHAPLAINS, that’s where we’ll do it’? In that case, it might have been short-sighted, maybe not. What other billets would you rather see removed? Maybe the corpsman who doesn’t do anything for you anyway.
I’d really be interested in knowing what’s behind it.

By: Tony

Tony — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:30:06 +0000

Years ago when I was on a CG, we had a chaplain. I guess he was a pretty good guy, but I never really spoke to him. The thing that stands out is that every time we had a missile shoot, he was the man on the trigger. He just loved to shoot off those missiles. Also we had a evening prayer right before taps every night. The only ship out of the 8 I was on that did that.

By: JustaChaps

JustaChaps — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:12:22 +0000

Hiya, Gang!
A note first of all to Squid Vicious - Why you want a chaplain and not a social worker: Chaplains have COMPLETE and TOTAL confidentiality, unlike any other human services caregiver in the military. It is a matter of military law (MRE 503) and regulation. No doctor, social worker, counselor can give you that level of privacy when you come to us to discuss what’s on your mind, religious or otherwise. Are you suicidal? “Doing” the neighbor’s wife while he’s at sea? I ain’t telling your boss or the neighbor. We will, however, have a talk about what is going on and how it is less than helpful to all concerned. If you are religious we will move the conversation to that other level as well as you desire. Chaplains serve at sea because of the 1st Amendment not in spite of it. We exist to assist our shipmates with their religious/spiritual needs when those needs cannot be met by civilian clergy (halfway through a Westpac it’s hard to have your local pastor, Imam, rabbi, guru come to visit). And we work hard at caring for everybody, even Squid Vicious, he’s a shipmate, too. I’ve done a ****load of counseling for non-religious persons and they’ve not been harmed too greatly by someone who believes in “Santa Claus”. Get a grip, some of your best Chiefs during your career, guys you wanted to grow up to become, they were religious and you didn’t throw them overboard and they gave you great advice, personally and career-wise.
I don’t have anything to say to bubbleheads except it sucks to be you. OK, that was mean. Sorry. But even bubbleheads are religious or at least “spiritual” (you’d have to be to do what you do, where you do it) and those needs are met by your shipmates as best as possible and there is a chaplain attached to the unit, if not to the individual boat. Enough, gotta go convert some heathen and convince them the Easter Bunny loves them!

By: Jerseyboy5726

Jerseyboy5726 — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:52:54 +0000

Interesting read. Now for some information that is factual and historical. Chaplains are on active duty because of our Constitutional rights not in violation of them. There have been several challenges to this matter before the Supreme Court which always held that if religion were not readily available the military would necessarily be depriving its members the freedom of expression guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. As for people coping without chaplains - people cope without exercise too - that does not mean a physical fitness free lifestyle is optimum - just possible.

I concur with the author’s point of view. Anyone who doubts the validity of the role of a chaplain should acquaint themsevles with Fleet Admiral Nimitz’s quote at the end of WWII regarding the contribution of the chaplain - by the way - we won that won in a very big way too. I am not suggesting it was the chaplains who made that possible just pointing out that in order to be successful it takes many disciplines to make for a victorious team - not everyone can quarterback - some have to stay home and block.

ATB