Mary-Beth wrote me an e-mail asking for my perspective on her confusing relationship situation with an FDNF Sailor. Here’s her e-mail (ship name was removed):
My name is Mary. I really enjoy your blogs. Since you are in the military I would like to ask you a couple questions if you don’t mind. I have an ex boyfriend or boyfriend that is stationed on the USS [“Some Ship”]. I’m unsure of our relationship status because he has been very back and forth. He got orders to come to Japan 3 1/2 years ago. I am a recent graduate and during my second year of college I was suppose to study abroad in Japan so we could be together but ended up not going because I could sense over the phone he was acting very mentally different. I wasn’t sure if this is the result of another girl but was unsure. His entire family goes to my church and I had a great relationship with his mom until I decided not to go to Japan 3 times and study abroad. Now, I feel that if it was meant to be he would have come back for me but I’m quite unsure about this situation. I feel as if I have to beg him to email me back like once a week. He says he cares and he just wants to be friends but then he sometimes changes his mind. I really care for him because we were great friends since we were kids and now that I’ve have a great career he decides to show back up in my life. He will be getting out of the navy sometime this year but my question is, did he cheat on me? Was he saying he wanted to just stay friends because he didn’t want to cheat on me? I’m so confused and I know you’re not a psychologist but I enjoy your blogs and thought you could write a little about the double lives of sailors sometimes. The weird thing about this is we’ve never had sex and sometimes I think that’s it, he wants sex from other women or he either is just really focused about his duties in the navy. I know no one is perfect so I forgive easily. Can you help with a great blog?
Mary’s right in that I’m not a shrink, but I’ll still to give my perspective. I’m not sure the cause, but being out here tends to make you forget of everything you have back home. I go through it, and so do many of my close friends. You can even ask my mother who would agree that I don’t call or e-mail very often, or as often as I should. I think it has to do with the overall operational tempo with being in the FDNF. There’s a lot of work and stress associated with being on a ship out here, so when we have off, it’s usually spent sleeping or finding less than savory ways to blow off steam. Situational depression could also be a factor, as many people out here haven’t been away from home all that much, and it’s easier to just be distant with those back home so you’re not reminded of the people and things you miss. That’s at least my reason. It could also just be sheer laziness.
Being on a ship in the FDNF can also put Sailors in situations where their moral compass goes completely out of whack. We’re in a place with beautiful women, many of which like American men. It’s really not all that difficult to meet Japanese girls (obviously I’m not talking from personal experience here.) and I know many Sailors who carry on relationships with multiple women at once. Sure they may be faithful in the US, but in Japan where the women tend to be over-exoticized by Western culture and are used to a traditional “woman” role in the relationship, it’s easy for a man to stray. Then there are the ports we pull into. We go to places like Thailand, Hong Kong, Korea, PI, etc., all of which have a large population of women of ill-repute. Not all Sailors sleep with prostitutes, but some do. It’s really strange actually. I think there would be very few, if any, Sailors who would sleep with a crack head hooker on the street corner in the US, but you go somewhere like Thailand, and you see a lot of people you wouldn’t expect, holding the hand of some Thai hooker they met in a bar.
After we went to Thailand I started reading up on the prostitution that goes on over there and the relationship dynamic between hooker and john. One thing I learned, and which makes perfect sense as to why Sailors would be more willing to engage in it somewhere like Thailand than the US, is what’s called The Girlfriend Experience (GFE). Yes, it’s as pathetic as it sounds. Instead of just going into some back alley, doing the deed, and then throwing money at the girl, in the GFE, the girl pretty much acts like your girlfriend. You go out to dinner and talk about each other, your families, what brought you to where you are. You’re very affectionate with one another, and she shows you around the area. You joke around and do this and that, but in the end…you’re still paying for sex. As pathetic as it is, the whole thing is sort of fascinating in a way. I’m getting off track.
So anyway, you take a guy who comes to Japan for the first time. He meets some Japanese girl or pulls into a port and gets involved with one of the locals. He’s been underway for a while and he’s lonely. He’s been drinking and eventually sleeps with the girl. It feels good at the time, but when he’s all sobered up and he realizes what he did, he knows he fucked up. Does he tell you about it? No, that’d mean he’d have to have some balls and admit he fucked up. Instead, he pulls the “I think we need some time apart.” If you don’t already know, that translates to “I want to bang other chicks without having to worry about hurting you” in guy talk. Then when the guy’s back home in Yokosuka, or he’s gotten rid of the Japanese girl, he realizes he made a huge mistake, and that he was stupid to want any other girl besides you…and then comes crawling back. Some would argue it’s just the young man sowing his oats and learning from his mistakes. That sometimes it takes poor choices and a lot of heartache to make you realize what you have. Others would just say we’re all dogs and you should get rid of us. It’s your call.
The last thing I want to touch on is where Mary says “I feel that if it was meant to be he would have come back for me but I’m quite unsure about this situation.” To any guy who is going through something similar and reads this, NEVER make any career or life decision with your emotions or based on what a woman wants you to do. Love can sometimes be infatuation, and that can sometimes lead you down a road you really don’t want to travel. For Mary, I think it’s unfair to pin the blame on this Sailor. If you were supposed to go out to Japan to see him, then you messed up by not going. We’re in the Navy, this isn’t the Peace Corps where we can just decide to leave or go on a short notice vacation. It takes two people to make a military relationship work and if you’re not fully committed to it, cut all ties now and move on.
I’m not sure if my above rambling will help any, so let’s hope someone in the comments can be more helpful. Good luck…
Comments 15
Sorry about that folks, I accidentally had comments turned off.
Posted 10 Jun 2008 at 3:45 pm ¶Hi,
My name is Kerri. I really feel like I can relate to Mary-Beth’s email. I have a boyfriend on the USS (some ship) as well and I am currently experiencing the same thing. One minute he says he wants to be together and the next minute he wants time apart. The finally thing is we were actually dating and I just so happened to study abroad. So to help Mary-Beth out, sometimes we never know the outcome of situations. So I kind of figured it out when Jim said, “He most likely wants to bang other women.” I also enjoy reading this blog and I feel this particular blog gives great insight to what happens with relationships SOMETIMES in the lives of sailors. We have to keep in mind that they’re serving our country and they have a lot on their plate, meaning sometimes as humans we put to much on the next person and we need to just give them time to sort things out. (Sorry Jim, I didn’t mean to turn this blog into a love advice column or anything.) I feel if Mary-Beth really cares then she should hang around until her ex gets out of the navy and take it from there, seeing that she didn’t arrange to meet him overseas. Also, Jim your insight really helped me make a great relationship decision. Keep up the great work Jim, this has been my favorite post so far!!!
~Kerri
Posted 10 Jun 2008 at 6:17 pm ¶If you have doubts, move on. You can’t build a relationship on mistrust.
I have to agree with Jim though, you probably should have taken the opportunity to come out to Japan and spend some time with him. So there was fault with both parties there.
Just look at it as a learning experience.
Posted 10 Jun 2008 at 6:38 pm ¶This might seem like an outlandish idea but did you ask him if he’s been seeing other people? Sounds like you’ve got some issues in communicating with him. You told him one thing, then did another by saying you were coming to Japan, and not following through with it THREE TIMES. You’ve been ambiguous about your intentions. He probably took your actions to mean you weren’t really all that serious about being with him.
Posted 10 Jun 2008 at 7:32 pm ¶It’s hard for me to believe you had expectations of him staying ‘faithful’ when you guys aren’t married or even engaged… Unless of course you had some kind of bizarre Christian virgin agreement between each other and God? In that case, the poor guy probably did what came natural to him as a hardworking, young, UNMARRIED sailor.
Unless you are married, engaged or otherwise betrothed, don’t expect him to be anything but a single guy out in the world. It sounds like he’s trying to let you make the decision on where the relationship will go by being wishy-washy. You can’t blame him for being that way.
If you’re truly his friend then you will understand. If your relationship eventually repairs after he leaves the Navy, don’t hold anything he’s done against him. I know you’re probably hurting inside thinking about what he could have possibly done…but really, you shouldn’t be. You haven’t been a perfect girlfriend either.
There’s a lot of sailors/soldiers/airmen/marines…etc… who are unfaithful married or not. They go underway, follow what everyone else is doing (that’s what bootcamp taught them, be One), and mess up, later regretting the whole thing, but a good story to tell underway. I know, my husband cheated on me, and I caught him in it. And although everyone thinks I’m a fool for taking him back, we’re still working on our relationship and trying to overcome that situation. We went to counseling and everything and I’ve learned I wasn’t the only one this has happened to. We get so wrapped up in the situation, we’re only aware of ourselves. Other wives go thru this, and the military guys go thru this with their wives (the ones who can’t handle being alone). We’re all human, we all have needs, some are just weaker than others. What you decide is your decision. Going thru this with my husband has made us more honest with one another, and I finally figured out I didn’t know the man I married, hormones just got in the way. I don’t know what it’s like to be on a ship. I don’t wear the uniform, I’m not out on deployment and see the same peeps everyday, and the days seem like yesterday because of same routine. I know it’s hard on them I see the effects with my own sailor. I have to constantly remind him that he’s not single (because we’re apart so much) and that charging up nearly 400 dollars from the paycheck in Bahrain doesn’t help me when rents due. He comes home with stories of men who went to bars and paid for prostitutes, yea, even married ones. Some in which I knew. But it’s some big secret. Noone wants to tell the wife and be responsible for a break-up or divorce. I know noone told me. And I’m guilty for not telling too. It’s something that happens, because they are underway and their buddies will keep it hushed. I’m sorry you are going thru a hard time, but better now than if you were to get married. Find someone who can take care of you and be there for you. Not some wimp who can’t even handle a dating relationship underway cause of all the p***y that’s thrown in his face. And let me say this, not all guys are like this. Some are the sweetest and most caring who will never cheat on you, but those guys are the ones who end up with wives who are undeserving of them. Opposites attract I guess.
Posted 11 Jun 2008 at 6:19 am ¶This quote from your blog left an impression..
[ Instead, he pulls the “I think we need some time apart.” If you don’t already know, that translates to “I want to bang other chicks without having to worry about hurting you” in guy talk. ]
While I understand where a man can think that it is best to split up while he’s banging other chicks, it must be known that it doesn’t make it any more painless for the woman he’s splitting with if she were to find out that he was banging other broads. What splitting up really does it make it easier for the guy to go out and bang other chicks with little or no guilt. I think it’s unfair to say that the man does it for the woman, because I don’t believe he does, I believe he does it for his own conscious. i just had to let that be known.
Posted 11 Jun 2008 at 7:27 am ¶Theresa: It’s definitely to avoid guilt. When I said to avoid hurting, I meant the hurt which then causes guilt…so yeah, it’s totally selfish.
Posted 11 Jun 2008 at 7:53 am ¶“A woman’s life is love a man’s love is life.”
-Little Brother
That pretty much sums up how us guy feel. Most men especially military men want to have stability ie a wife and kids, but with it comes the double edge sword of also wanting a experience life. How do you have a wife and kid, but also experience life? Cheating on their wives is the way that most men can get both. Some call it being a man, but it is really selfish. Being in the Navy I see it a lot especially with these GeoBachelors in Japan. I for one am in my late 20’s and refuse to get married unless I can give my full attention to my wife. Since now I have a taste for different women and experiences that is not possible. Some can call me immature/the heartbreaker, but at least I am honest. Sure love has knocked on my door a few times but my office hours are between the ages of 30 and 35.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 9:38 am ¶Hi Jim,
Thank you for your post. It’s been very interesting to read all of the posts from other readers as well. I really do believe that this post has help me with my decision. I ended the situation with my fellow sailor. I explained to him that we should go our separate ways and end on nice terms with no friendship or relationship strings attached. I lost a friend of 15 years but it was well worth it because I can now sleep at night. I think that no matter what, whether if you’re in armed forces or just a civilian you should not date a best friend and then just settle back at being friends because it leaves you confused. It’s best to cut all ends. It hurts to let a best friend and boyfriend go but when someone is so indecisive and confused then maybe it wasn’t meant to be in the first place. Also, I wish everyone in the navy safety and best of luck.
Mary-Beth
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 3:26 pm ¶Now that, we have turned this into a male bashing blog, and the Navy causing men to cheat. It is nothing to do with the Navy, as to why men cheat. The civilian world is just the same. Our country has lost touch with what marrage, and a relationship is about. You hear about this person cheating, or a divorce everyday. And, It is not just men, I saw a recent study on FOX news awhile back, about cheating. I do not remember the percentages, but women (married or in a relationship) admitted cheating about the same as men. As thought before that men cheated way more than women, now women surveyed are saying that really, women are not doing it anymore than before, it is just they are better at hiding it! People cheat because there is something missing, not because they are in the Navy. Sure, there is alot of temptation in ports, but that person would cheat even back home. Lastly, I really don’t think that Mary is in a relationship. How can you have a lasting relationship when you just talk on e-mail and the phone once in awhile. I
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 4:14 pm ¶Thank you for your insight. Your post clarified my decision as well. Have a great day!
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 4:30 pm ¶You’re absolutely right. Blaming the Navy for a spouse cheating is a total cop out. That could be said for the deployed sailor and the spouse at home. I’ve known women who become bitter about their husbands always being gone and then cheat, just as much as I’ve known about men cheating on their wives while they’re gone.
It’s not something that I choose to do, and I trust my sweetheart not to make that choice either. Should something like that arise in the future, I won’t sit there and assume that he is a lemming with no self-control just so I can feel better. It’s an individual’s choice.
If more people were honest with themselves like you, the divorce rates wouldn’t be what they are. Although single life is fun, please don’t assume that all married folks who have children have somehow stopped living.
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 5:34 pm ¶There are some rare cases lol
[ Instead, he pulls the “I think we need some time apart.” If you don’t already know, that translates to “I want to bang other chicks without having to worry about hurting you” in guy talk. ]
I agree this is mostly selfish. In the end, I think both men and women use phrases like “time apart”, “take a break”, and “see other people”.
It’s the language of our time. It doesn’t seem like anybody ever “breaks up” anymore unless they have some crazy kind of fall out. The fact is, nobody wants to say, “You’re a nice person, I’m glad we had some time together, but really, I’d like to get away from you. I don’t want you calling me everyday for the next month telling me how much pain you’re in. Also, I REALLY don’t ever want us to get together in the future to share our personal newsletters over coffee so we can see whose life is happier.”
So we take breaks and have time apart. We deal with the phone calls and apologize for the things we’re not really sorry for. I know it’s hard…but c’mon, clean breaks are the best. Yeah, it hurts like a sonofabitch, but I’d rather be kicked in the balls once then have my teeth drilled everyday for weeks on end while “the girl I used to know” alludes to the guys she’s fucked during Time Intermittent.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “mutual” split. Someone’s always the asshole. I don’t know if anyone can change this. Now and again, I hear the line “my ex is my best friend”, but I’ve just never seen it. It’s like Bigfoot, Flying Saucers and Non-Stick Cookware to me. Every time I hear someone pull that line, I always want to ask “Does your ex know about this?”
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 5:31 am ¶You are absolutely right, it has nothing to do with the Navy or the Military. People are going to cheat regardless of employer. Before we continue to get crazy on the active duty guy cheating lets talk about the other half. Been doing this military thing for half my life and been stationed all over the place and I am here to tell you that for every Sailor out there cheating there is an equal number of spouses back home cheating too! True that women keep it more on the down low and not as flashy with it as men probably are, but there is just as many men as there is women cheating.
Posted 14 Jun 2008 at 1:03 am ¶Let’s take into account what cheating is. For a long time, I considered kissing to be cheating…imagined if I found out my girlfriend was being banged by another dude, I’d flip out right? So for a long time I would stay on the boat or find someone who just wanted to do sight seeing. That’s not the case so much anymore because when we are out for so long without seeing your girl, sometimes we want someone to hang out with, that’s a girl. The thing is that guys never know what a girls’ limit is. I could have girls kissing me and grinding and what not, and before hand your girl will say it’s cool, but when she finds out, more than likely she will get upset with it. Then every time you are out to sea after that, she’ll expect you to do the same thing. More than likely it will be the first thing she’ll ask when she sees you. That’s when the guilt factor sinks in.
I’ll Lover her because she is in my life, but I won’t give up the rest of my life for her knowing that going to the club or a “buy me drink” girl bar with the guys will end our relationship. It’s definitely all about trust.
Posted 28 Jun 2008 at 3:27 am ¶Post a Comment
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