I was recently sent the following e-mail which carried the bold subject line “Jim, I Need Help, PLEASE READ SOON!” The e-mail is from a shipmate who is asking for much needed advice. I hope one of the other readers, who made one of the decisions he details below, can help him much more than I can:
Hey Jim,
First off I wanna say that your Blog is great. Its actually my homepage now; liked it that much. next i’d like to introduce myself, and state my problem.
Currently i’m a 2nd class stationed right here in Yokosuka. Been in the Navy almost 4 years (3 yrs 7 months) and still have not even brought up the topic of re-enlisting to my command. I have come to a bit of a crossroads in both my Navy career, and life. I am not happy with what I do in the Navy. I know this because I have put everything I’ve got into this rate, have been greatly rewarded in the form of promotions, medals, FLOC’s, SOY, you name it (which I am ever grateful to those who feel/felt i have earned and deserve them). Yet it has done little to instill any pride or love for what i do. With every promotion or reward, recognition, I have performed less and less consistently. I feel that it is because I was looking for something with every award I ever got. New challenges, new skills, new ways to move foward from where I already was. Although my rate Offers new challenges and skills, they are not many, and revolve around the same three computer programs one being Powerpoint, the other I cannot discuss, and the last is specific to our rate and the Navy. (of all these three, only one barely yields any demand for it in the outside, and the other two are basically useless)
Also, the rate specific skills I have learned, although one would assume can be used in the outside….is very unlikely, and quite frankly unheard of. There have been no success stories that I have encountered of individuals using our rating skills to land anything that pays any amount worth talking about on the outside. They say we can work at airports and make low to middle income. Thats it…an airport…for low to mid income (i’d say in the range of $15-$30 a year and thats being generous in my assumption). To make matters worse, SRB’s are offered (as of this writing) only to those re-enlisting after there first 4 and rarely cracks into then $5k range after taxes are taken and to top it all off advancement is tight and will continue to be for many many more cycles to come.May I add we have a mere 4+ duty stations to choose from ( none of which are any exciting, and the exotic ones are hard to get stationed at)I have chosen to crossrate into ..Yes IT. I know that the skills within that rate are wide and vast with something for everyone, SRB’s are large and the norm, advancement is for the most part flowing, duty stations are plentiful, and job skills apply in the real world.
Yes this was my decision, to crossratre into IT…until I read your “9 reasons to NOT join the Navy” post. I’m almost sure you dont come from the same city i’m from, let alone my state. Your background and ethnicty is possibly not even that of my own, and your upbringing was possibly totally different if not the complete opposite of mine. Having said all that my point is this…we are two entirely different people me and you, yet I experienced EACH and EVERY one of those 9 reasons, and came to similar conclusions to each of those 9 reasons, even before I ever even heard of this blog. This is to some extent, in my opinion legitimate proof, that a US Navy sailor, no matter from what walk of life.. will experience these very same drawbacks at some point in his her career regardless of rate (predominatley their careers up until E-6).
It’s because of these drawbacks, and the stress and lifestyle changes that the Navy demands, that I have considered another path. Getting out (reserves possibly) and going to college to EARN a BSIT or BSCS (bachelors computer science). The choice seems simple for many who would read this including yourself Jim. But for me its not that easy. Turn on the tv, and tune in to CNN, ABC nightly news, etc…and you will see it and hear about it every other news break. The economy. I have looked at colleges and found a great one that my GI bill would fully fund until completion (for now) of my BSIT/BSCS with money possibly leftover. Then again I would probably have to work a part time or weekends to buy extras, maybe pay for rent unless my folks let me stay for free. Just that I am unsure if this “Economic Slowdown” as many political figures like to refer to it… is just the beginning of something thats bound to get worse. My former recruiter says I should stay in becuase things are tough on the outside, and his younger brother who happens to be my best friend is telling me the same thing from a civilains perspective since he is not military. Now here is where the subject line actually goes into effect…
I need help… help in deciding what path to take, from someone who’s current life in the Navy is one of the to paths I have before me.
Please Jim no pressure, in the end I will do what is right for me, but I can’t figure that out without getting a legitimate perspective from a third person.
1.) I was thinking of crossrating to IT, getting experience in the trade, probably (time permitting) knock out a couple Certs, and a few college courses (maybe even earning an associates from a noname SOCNAV distance learning Coll/Univ). Then getting out at 27-28 years old and hoping for the best when looking for an IT job.
Or..
2.) Getting out now (reserves possibly), Going to Florida International University (very reputable University in florida and reasonable tuition costs which GI can fully fund until BSIT/BSCS completion). Knock out some certs while attending school, and graduating with a BS at 27-28 years old, with little to no experience (maybe an internship), and a couple certs.What do you think would serve me best in the long run. If you feel the navy is the best route…I am more than willing to put up with the BullS if it is in your opinion the best course to take.
Also please feel free to put your own spin on my 2 paths, for exp…what you think in your view may be the ups and downs of both paths.
Thats all, sorry if my email was a long one, but I appreciate the time given by you to read this and hopefully your reply.
Thank you very much.
Martin
If you read up until this point, congratulations on being one of the few readers on this site who can read more than two paragraphs without getting distracted.
Martin’s question is one that everyone in the military will have to ask themselves as least once. I’ve already answered it once and I obviously chose to keep going with the Navy. Unfortunately for Martin, no amount of advice is going to make the decision easier, as he will ultimately be the one who has to make it on his own. However, I’ll explain how I’m dealing with the same question again.
I have about a year and a half left in the Navy. I’m up for orders and have to decide if I’ll be continuing with my Naval career, or if I’ll move on to the civilian life. When I had to decide the first time, I realized I wasn’t ready to get out. I had no money saved, still hadn’t done college, and had no idea what I would do for a job. Those three big factors made it a no-brainer when I decided to sign up for four more years. However, it’s coming to a point now where if I decide to stay in, I’m pretty much in for the long haul as it would leave me with about 4 or 5 years before I can retire, and throwing that away would be a really foolish move.
So what do I do? A huge part of me wants to get out. I want to go back home, or move somewhere new, and live like everyone else. I want to have a steady job that I enjoy and gives me some sense of purpose. I want to meet someone who I’ll settle down with and start a family. All those things which at this point I don’t believe are possible in the Navy. But then I look at my paycheck this week of $2,800 and wonder where I’ll be able to make that same amount of money in the civilian world right off the bat. Then I look at the few times I’ve been able to walk around in my uniform and the immense pride that I got being a Sailor. Everyone has seen the Army guys walking everywhere in their BDUs, but people rarely see a Sailor looking sharp in his crackerjacks and Dixie cup. When they do, their heads turn. Then there’s the travel. The one aspect I would miss most about the Navy is the travel. Sure it the restrictions and curfews dampen the visits a little bit, but you can still make the most of it.
When I ask myself this question I start asking so many “what if..” questions that I eventually scare myself into staying with what’s comfortable. But, do I want to stay in and be miserable and feel like I can only go as far as Big Navy will let me? Do I get out and barely earn enough to live and accept the fact that I’m no longer a squid…no longer a Sailor? I think I’ll have regrets and doubts regardless of the decision I’d make.
So Martin, I’m sorry I couldn’t help you, but I’m struggling with the same decisions. Hopefully someone reading this can help us both out and give us their experience of having to answer the question themselves. Maybe someone could relate to how you and I are both feeling, and tell us how they dealt with it. Either way, good luck and I hope everything works out on your end.
Comments 7
Martin, I have done essentially what you are talking about. I came in as an undesignated airman and struck into IT. Your goals are attainable, especially in regard to certifications and education. I am 2 classes away from getting my BSIT. It has been a long road, but I was not really dedicated to my education when I first came in (booze and women were all I cared about at the time). Well, I’ve been in 10 years now and it doesn’t feel like it at all.
Posted 26 Apr 2008 at 11:03 pm ¶I have considered getting out a few times. In fact, the asshattery of being on the Kitty Hawk for 3 years and being treated like a red headed step child almost drove me out of the Navy. When people consider getting out, I tell them to ask themselves one question. Have you completed all the goals that you wanted to while you were in? I am not a recruiter or Joe Navy at all. If you want to get out and go to school, that’s great! A good portion of people who get out never touch their GI Bill. Like you mentioned, a degree with no experience is not going to do much for you on the outside. Going IT will get you a good clearance, experience, and an opportunity to save some of that extra cash that we are luck to get when SRB’s come around. I made 1st class in 6 years, and took the Chief’s exam for LDO this year, and made board. If you finish your degree up on active duty, you can look at doing the same, or even applying to OCS. The information professional officer designator (O IT types) is critically undermanned, so chances are it will remain that way for a while. Just like the enlisted side, jobs are very lucrative right now for JOs with managerial experience.
Whatever you decide, take the time to use the Navy for every penny of school, certification, and experience that you can get. From your e-mail to Jim, it sounds like you are considering the right options. So many people get out without a plan, and that is about the worst mistake possible to make. Let me know if you have some more questions, and I’d be happy to answer or provide guidance.
Martin,
Another option to consider is t becoming a Dod contractor. I know several ITs that I worked with at my last command who literally left work on Friday in uniform, and came in on Monday in civies. Most, not all, will hire you without any college, based solely on your military experience. After speaking with several of the civilian contractors I worked with I found out that they make decent pay and have medical and dental benefits commensurate with what we get in the navy(which isn’t saying much). This could give you time to work on your degree or certifications while pulling down a respectable paycheck each month.
I understand that many of the contributers to Jim’s message boards are contractors themselves, so it might be in your best interest to talk to them before making any life altering decisions.
Posted 27 Apr 2008 at 3:42 am ¶IT1 (SW/AW) your story sounds almost identical to mine, I have also been in 10 years and B!@#$%# and Alcohol were all I cared about most of those 10. Martin, go with whatever decison is best for you just DONT get out without a plan just because you are fed up with NAVY, I have had many friends over the years that have gotten out without a plan and it was a terrible decision on their part. There is alot of bullshit to deal with on a daily basis in the Navy and it exist in every rate at every pay grade however, bullshit is inevitable u really cant avoid it, just put your BS wipers on and keep it to pushing. Good luck Matin in whatever you decide…
Posted 27 Apr 2008 at 7:48 am ¶Whatever you decide, I wish you well…life choices are difficult when you are at the proverbial “fork in the road.”
Posted 27 Apr 2008 at 1:50 pm ¶Dude, get the the hell out, but wait for congress to improve the GI Bill before you do it. It’s in the works now. The Navy has the worst education benefits in the military and hire the biggest jerks to dole out the tuition money. We get 16 semester hours per fiscal year. The army, air force, marine corp and even coast guard get $4500 with no credit hour limits. And some of the idiots they hire for Navy College - are something else. A retired NCCM by the name of McCormick runs Navy College in Yokosuka. He’s always trying to talk me out of my distance learning program with Penn State. He’s always telling me I need to save money and pick some distance learning colleges no one has ever heard about. I always hear, “As a former MASTER CHIEF NAVY COUNSELOR you need to listen to my advice and pick a school like mine. I went to Exclesior College, got my degree in less than a year, and they took all my military credits.” Who cares about his crap degree. Let me pick my own school and use all the Navy’s limited TA money that I can get.
Posted 27 Apr 2008 at 2:12 pm ¶A degree is a degree no matter where you get it from as long as it’s accredited. Nobody cares about your Bachelors of Science degree from UMUC or Penn State or wherever else, unless you’re in one of “those” fields where you need to go to a prestigeous school. (i.e. Vanderbilt, Harvard Law, etc.) I do agree with mike, don’t let those fools at the Navy College Office talk you into some stupid crap.
I went in there once to see how far from a degree I was and what classes I needed to take to patch things up, but Nooo they tried getting me to enroll in classes. The obviously didn’t understand my engrish. Sorry, Public Administration isn’t the same as Business Law Captain Fuckbob! So don’t be fooled by their less than mediocre smooth talk. I wasn’t and just left them with their dicks in the wind.
Have a plan first, then go from there. Don’t think that by getting out of the Navy you’re going to escape the onslaught of bullshit you received. It’s everywhere. GL and godspeed.
Posted 27 Apr 2008 at 4:25 pm ¶That McCormick is really a winner. My girlfriend who is also in the Navy has had a problem with him in that he doesn’t know the meaning of the word NO. She is really creeped out by the guy. Once he told her to call him Wild Bill because that’s how all the ladies know him. Twice she has told him she doesn’t want to accept his invitation to get a snack while they discuss her education plans. When she said no the last time, he said he was going to call her command master chief about her lack of military bearing. This guy is a creep and he is old enough to be my girlfriend’s father. I don’t think my girlfriend is going to seek any more education during the few months she has left in Yokosuka. It isn’t right. We are just going to do our remaining time and get out.
Posted 11 May 2008 at 4:27 pm ¶People have too much power over you in the Navy.
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